The Waitangi Tribunal was established to resolve grievances between tribal groups and the Government, i.e. claims of wrongs perpetrated by the Government (aka the Crown). The Government of course represents all the people of this country, consequently claims brought against the Government by any group including Maori, in a democracy are effectively against the people of New Zealand (as represented by the Government). Consequently, a responsible Government, seeking to adhere to democratic principles, would have created a communications channel for anybody with a legitimate interest to express a view, whether supporting or against a claim being made, certainly to appeal claims that bear negatively on their own interests. The Government should also be seeking to redress proven wrongs in light of what’s best for everybody not just for Maori.
More generally, I don’t think there are many Kiwis, other than Maori subversives (of whatever race!) who want anything other than an integrated New Zealand. The problems is that too many people, perhaps most, including the Palmers of this world, don’t understand the implications of achieving integration, i.e. one people. In particular that by definition it requires acceptance of a single, core culture. By that I don’t mean that there isn’t room for celebrating multi ethnic and religious variations, e.g. Indian celebration of colours,, Jewish Hanukkah whatever, but that key values, including the importance of democracy and individualism are shared. I.e. a core culture that is essentially based on the prevalent Western Euro/British/American one.
In the main, claims are settled through direct negotiation between the claimants and the Crown. The Waitangi Tribunal is not involved in those negotiations.
I think the “ communications channel for anybody with a legitimate interest” you are seeking is the normal democratic method of petitioning your local politician, who represents the views of their electorate, and can influence the government that way.
In so far as an acceptance of a single, core culture, I think many would find that objectionable. Already some complain about karakia, te reo, haka and waiata being “thrust down their throats”. A shared democratic model even has its detractors.
“In the main, claims are settled through direct negotiation between the claimants and the Crown.”
As said, irrespective of the Waitangi Tribunal, the Government/Crown would in responsible pursuit of democratic principles, permit anybody with a legitimate interest to participate in the claims process. “Your local politician” is a fob off.
“More generally, I don’t think there are many Kiwis, other than Maori subversives (of whatever race!) who want anything other than an integrated New Zealand. ”
Integration does not will not work, Can anyone name a country anywhere in the world where integration has worked. There cannot be one people and there never will be. Look almost every part moari who appears on TV refers to “ our People ” There si even a TV add selling fishing gear where a part maori says “ it means more fish for our people ” The Palmers of this world are the traitors of NZ.. Good God the inter tribal stuff that goes on with maori should ned a clear signal that they will never integrate with others when they cannot cope with their own differences. Or should I say the elite will never allow integration.
A core culture that is essentially based on the prevalent Western Euro/British/American one will never be accepted by many races esp Muslims who want us to base our cultures on Islamic laws and culture, we will always, till the end of time be “ the infidels “ .
Multi-culturism and integration are the pipe dreams of the unhinged in my opinion based on my over 90 years on this planet.
“Multi-culturism and integration are the pipe dreams of the unhinged in my opinion based on my over 90 years on this planet.” – You got that right.
New Zealand was for many years listed internationally as bi-racial and it worked well. We were all Kiwis just some of us had cultural topping of various kinds.
Importing people with totally foreign religious ideology, cultural beliefs and practices than the existing population is ALWAYS a recipe for disaster made far worse when the government starts pandering to these people instead of insisting they integrate or better yet just not let in in to stay.
The heinous Helen Clark set up enclaves of foreign cultures around NZ precisely so these people WOULD NOT have to integrate. I personally have met foreigners who have been NZ citizens for 20+ years who cannot speak or even understand English because they do not need to.
Barry,
The ” when the government starts pandering to these people ” is done for one reason – votes. We will give you free shit! Quite underhand imo.
This free stuff is not given by the Govt, it comes from the Net Taxpayer. The Govt has no money, no assets, nothing. I all belongs to the People.
Unfortunately the people have no power, except on Election Day.
Ardern is leading us up the garden path. She will give Maori anything they ask, for one reason. She is desperate to hold power. If we end up with 3waters and co-governance we will see the loss of Democracy and NZ will be run by the Elite Tyrants.
Alastair (above) is right in everything he says. Over 90 years would be a lot of knowledge.
Is an excellent example of the widespread wrong think, which the very fact that it appears in an advertisement indicates a view that the advertisers at least thought it would resonate widely with their product audience.
You wouldn’t find such an advertisement being publicised for example in multi ethnic England, which doesn’t have the race based laws, high profile race based lobbying and official whinging, and large number of race based groups living separately, effectively as cult groups, as in New Zealand.
Whereas here we stupidly promote all those kinds of paraphernalia that emphasise racial separation and divisive wrong think. If the ToW gravy train, special taxation and other race based special treatment with its related legislation was abolished then the balance would shift such that tribal entities would disappear over time. Eventually, the wrong think with the kind of adverts as above would also disappear. How great for (part) Maori people finally shedding the weight of a culture that’s such a poor fit with the modern world.
One very big advantage for integration that we have in NZ is the extent of Maori intermarriage, which is much higher than it is amongst different ethnicities in other countries.
I can’t for the life of me see how we can’t get on as ‘citizens’ of this country. If there was nothing based on race then surely all the divisive separatist racism would disappear from this country. We should delete all reference to ‘race’ from all legislation and it should never be permitted to use it. I’m sure this is what was meant by us being treated as ‘one’ in the Treaty. There is nothing to stop any groups practicing their own culture or language in their own time – it just wouldn’t be funded by the rest of us. English is spoken by everyone so that should be the language used. It would be such a welcome relief to get rid of all the Pidgin English (Menglish!) or Maori words that drive us all to utter distraction these days.
So one man, our Attorney General, Geoffrey Palmer destroyed New Zealand in just three years what our ancestors, both Maori and Pakeha had fought so hard to achieved over 150 years.
This one man, Geoffrey Palmer opened up a can of worms by allowing claims to date back to 1840, his Five Principles for Crown Action on the Treaty of Waitangi and a Partnership between Maori and the Crown, all in three years.
The Tribunal before 1985, was a toothless dormant Tribunal that would probably never have been used until Geoffrey Palmer’s involvement in 1985 turned it into a unstoppable monster.
If Geoffrey Palmer hadn’t ‘meddled’ we wouldn’t be in the position we are in today. Geoffrey Palmer started it and John Key finished it by allowing UNDRIP to be signed. So between the pair of them and weak politicians who are more interested in their own election chances rather than what’s right for the country, they are responsible for our country rapidly becoming a basket case. There has to be a way to right all of this and the One New Zealand Foundation are making enormous strides, even though many of those who know the truth are currently hiding under the covers. We need to keep up the momentum and then surely we will right this enormous wrong.
The people of New Zealand must be told loudly and clearly they have been completely misled, not only by a false Treaty being used as our Founding Document when there is no other document in our history that comes anywhere near to a Founding Document than Queen Victoria’s Royal Charter, Palmer turning the Treaty into an out of control “monster” based on his studies in America and John Key signing UNDRIP when he knew the Government had been advised not to sign it by the Crown Law Office in 2007.
Both these men had no mandate from Parliament or the people of New Zealand to do what they did. What they did, “Was fundamentally incompatible with New Zealand’s constitutional and legal arrangements”. The Five Principles of the Treaty to this day have never been discussed or debated by the people of New Zealand, they just appeared in our legislation as did the Partnership, both based on a false Treaty document.
The question that must be asked, ‘Were their actions compatible with New Zealand’s constitutional and legal arrangements?’
Both the Crown Law Office and the Rosemary Banks, New Zealand’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations have stated, they were not!
One New Zealand Foundation Inc
on December 30, 2022 at 4:57 am
It’s good to see Neil has understood who allowed the Waitangi Tribunal to become the monster it has become since 1985. This was never the intention when the 1975 Treaty of Waitangi Act was enacted, but in 1985 Geoffrey Palmer, our Attorney General changed all this in just 3 years without debate or a mandate from the people of New Zealand.
Then in 2010 Prime Minister, John Key signed the Declaration on the Rights of the Indigenous People when there is no evidence or definition that Maori are indigenous to New Zealand and again without debate or a mandate from the people of New Zealand.
Both these men have allowed Maori to become “Partners with the Crown” and in the process of becoming in “Co- Governance” with the elected government of New Zealand, are not Maori!
Both men’s actions, “Were fundamentaly incompatible with our constitution and legal arrangemants” but they allowed New Zealand Citizens, based on race alone to have rights and priveges not enjoyed by all the People of New Zealand.
This goes against the Treaty of Waitangi and it’s one Principle of, “He iwi tahi tatou – We are now one people”, Are you going to sit and watch our Democrcy be destroyed because of two men that let personal agenda’s get in the way of their duty to the people of New Zealand they were elected and swore to do. Hopefully not, just two men who we beleive were traitors to our Nation and its Democracy.
And isn’t it interesting that those “Public Servants” who do/did so much damage to our beautiful country end up getting a knighthood or Damehood and are held up as paragon’s of society?
Often because of a deep seated obsession, in this case misplaced, the likes of which more generally have driven some of the greatest steps forward of mankind, as well as some of the greatest evils.
In 1989 a book was published called “The sellout of New Zealand” by Denis McKenna. He talks about a secret group operating in the NZ House of Parliament called the “Parliamentarians for Global Action (PGA), previously called “Parliamentarians for World Order” (PWO).
This NZ group is a sub-group of the World Association of Parliamentarians for World Order that first appeared in 1952, with a specific blue-print for the organization of one world government. (NWO).
When this book was published more than half the current MP’s in NZ were members of this covert group.
This group has been operating since 1981, with Richard Prebble being the first branch secretary for PWO. He told Parliament (16/6/81) that he was a member of PWO and that “In the final analysis the survival of our planet will depend upon the decisions of only a few thousand politicians. We will not be able to tackle these problems unless we are prepared to cooperate and give up some of our national sovereignty?
The only MP who has ever warned the people about the threat of PWO was Graeme Lee in 1982 when he said “The PWO seeks opening to dilute or, if necessary, deny NZ’s sovereignty. It seeks ultimately to replace our own elected representatives with a system of world government”.
Richard Prebble was replaced as branch secretary in 1986 by Helen Clark, while at the same time they changed their name from PWO to PGA.
In 2004 a list of MP’s belonging to PGA listed 42 MP’s by name. Three of those listed are still MP’s today. They are Nanaia Mahuta, Damien O’Conner and Trevor Mallard.
And let’s not forget that our current PM did the WEF Young Global Leaders indoctrination course, and passed with flying colours.
There is something deeper and sinister going on here in NZ driven by outside influences in my opinion?
Good morning everyone. Just coming to the comments posted yesterday. They make interesting reading. As we get further and further into this, I find the comments are coming from some clever and intelligent people.
Keep it going guys, we need to do our bit. For me, I post ‘Stop Co-Governance’ on Kiwiblogs’ General Debate every day. More and more people are becoming aware of things they just did not know. Why? The NZ Media. They are so far left they are standing on the edge of the Flat Earth, frothing at the mouth.
The Waitangi Tribunal was established to resolve grievances between tribal groups and the Government, i.e. claims of wrongs perpetrated by the Government (aka the Crown). The Government of course represents all the people of this country, consequently claims brought against the Government by any group including Maori, in a democracy are effectively against the people of New Zealand (as represented by the Government). Consequently, a responsible Government, seeking to adhere to democratic principles, would have created a communications channel for anybody with a legitimate interest to express a view, whether supporting or against a claim being made, certainly to appeal claims that bear negatively on their own interests. The Government should also be seeking to redress proven wrongs in light of what’s best for everybody not just for Maori.
More generally, I don’t think there are many Kiwis, other than Maori subversives (of whatever race!) who want anything other than an integrated New Zealand. The problems is that too many people, perhaps most, including the Palmers of this world, don’t understand the implications of achieving integration, i.e. one people. In particular that by definition it requires acceptance of a single, core culture. By that I don’t mean that there isn’t room for celebrating multi ethnic and religious variations, e.g. Indian celebration of colours,, Jewish Hanukkah whatever, but that key values, including the importance of democracy and individualism are shared. I.e. a core culture that is essentially based on the prevalent Western Euro/British/American one.
Good words Ron. A very good perspective.
In the main, claims are settled through direct negotiation between the claimants and the Crown. The Waitangi Tribunal is not involved in those negotiations.
I think the “ communications channel for anybody with a legitimate interest” you are seeking is the normal democratic method of petitioning your local politician, who represents the views of their electorate, and can influence the government that way.
In so far as an acceptance of a single, core culture, I think many would find that objectionable. Already some complain about karakia, te reo, haka and waiata being “thrust down their throats”. A shared democratic model even has its detractors.
“In the main, claims are settled through direct negotiation between the claimants and the Crown.”
As said, irrespective of the Waitangi Tribunal, the Government/Crown would in responsible pursuit of democratic principles, permit anybody with a legitimate interest to participate in the claims process. “Your local politician” is a fob off.
“.. single, core culture, I think many would find that objectionable”
You may well be correct John, but it is the definition of, the price of as it were, of one people. Objecting is a vote for separation.
“More generally, I don’t think there are many Kiwis, other than Maori subversives (of whatever race!) who want anything other than an integrated New Zealand. ”
Integration does not will not work, Can anyone name a country anywhere in the world where integration has worked. There cannot be one people and there never will be. Look almost every part moari who appears on TV refers to “ our People ” There si even a TV add selling fishing gear where a part maori says “ it means more fish for our people ” The Palmers of this world are the traitors of NZ.. Good God the inter tribal stuff that goes on with maori should ned a clear signal that they will never integrate with others when they cannot cope with their own differences. Or should I say the elite will never allow integration.
A core culture that is essentially based on the prevalent Western Euro/British/American one will never be accepted by many races esp Muslims who want us to base our cultures on Islamic laws and culture, we will always, till the end of time be “ the infidels “ .
Multi-culturism and integration are the pipe dreams of the unhinged in my opinion based on my over 90 years on this planet.
“Multi-culturism and integration are the pipe dreams of the unhinged in my opinion based on my over 90 years on this planet.” – You got that right.
New Zealand was for many years listed internationally as bi-racial and it worked well. We were all Kiwis just some of us had cultural topping of various kinds.
Importing people with totally foreign religious ideology, cultural beliefs and practices than the existing population is ALWAYS a recipe for disaster made far worse when the government starts pandering to these people instead of insisting they integrate or better yet just not let in in to stay.
The heinous Helen Clark set up enclaves of foreign cultures around NZ precisely so these people WOULD NOT have to integrate. I personally have met foreigners who have been NZ citizens for 20+ years who cannot speak or even understand English because they do not need to.
Barry,
The ” when the government starts pandering to these people ” is done for one reason – votes. We will give you free shit! Quite underhand imo.
This free stuff is not given by the Govt, it comes from the Net Taxpayer. The Govt has no money, no assets, nothing. I all belongs to the People.
Unfortunately the people have no power, except on Election Day.
Ardern is leading us up the garden path. She will give Maori anything they ask, for one reason. She is desperate to hold power. If we end up with 3waters and co-governance we will see the loss of Democracy and NZ will be run by the Elite Tyrants.
Alastair (above) is right in everything he says. Over 90 years would be a lot of knowledge.
Steve.
“ it means more fish for our people ”
Is an excellent example of the widespread wrong think, which the very fact that it appears in an advertisement indicates a view that the advertisers at least thought it would resonate widely with their product audience.
You wouldn’t find such an advertisement being publicised for example in multi ethnic England, which doesn’t have the race based laws, high profile race based lobbying and official whinging, and large number of race based groups living separately, effectively as cult groups, as in New Zealand.
Whereas here we stupidly promote all those kinds of paraphernalia that emphasise racial separation and divisive wrong think. If the ToW gravy train, special taxation and other race based special treatment with its related legislation was abolished then the balance would shift such that tribal entities would disappear over time. Eventually, the wrong think with the kind of adverts as above would also disappear. How great for (part) Maori people finally shedding the weight of a culture that’s such a poor fit with the modern world.
One very big advantage for integration that we have in NZ is the extent of Maori intermarriage, which is much higher than it is amongst different ethnicities in other countries.
I can’t for the life of me see how we can’t get on as ‘citizens’ of this country. If there was nothing based on race then surely all the divisive separatist racism would disappear from this country. We should delete all reference to ‘race’ from all legislation and it should never be permitted to use it. I’m sure this is what was meant by us being treated as ‘one’ in the Treaty. There is nothing to stop any groups practicing their own culture or language in their own time – it just wouldn’t be funded by the rest of us. English is spoken by everyone so that should be the language used. It would be such a welcome relief to get rid of all the Pidgin English (Menglish!) or Maori words that drive us all to utter distraction these days.
So one man, our Attorney General, Geoffrey Palmer destroyed New Zealand in just three years what our ancestors, both Maori and Pakeha had fought so hard to achieved over 150 years.
This one man, Geoffrey Palmer opened up a can of worms by allowing claims to date back to 1840, his Five Principles for Crown Action on the Treaty of Waitangi and a Partnership between Maori and the Crown, all in three years.
The Tribunal before 1985, was a toothless dormant Tribunal that would probably never have been used until Geoffrey Palmer’s involvement in 1985 turned it into a unstoppable monster.
If Geoffrey Palmer hadn’t ‘meddled’ we wouldn’t be in the position we are in today. Geoffrey Palmer started it and John Key finished it by allowing UNDRIP to be signed. So between the pair of them and weak politicians who are more interested in their own election chances rather than what’s right for the country, they are responsible for our country rapidly becoming a basket case. There has to be a way to right all of this and the One New Zealand Foundation are making enormous strides, even though many of those who know the truth are currently hiding under the covers. We need to keep up the momentum and then surely we will right this enormous wrong.
The people of New Zealand must be told loudly and clearly they have been completely misled, not only by a false Treaty being used as our Founding Document when there is no other document in our history that comes anywhere near to a Founding Document than Queen Victoria’s Royal Charter, Palmer turning the Treaty into an out of control “monster” based on his studies in America and John Key signing UNDRIP when he knew the Government had been advised not to sign it by the Crown Law Office in 2007.
Both these men had no mandate from Parliament or the people of New Zealand to do what they did. What they did, “Was fundamentally incompatible with New Zealand’s constitutional and legal arrangements”. The Five Principles of the Treaty to this day have never been discussed or debated by the people of New Zealand, they just appeared in our legislation as did the Partnership, both based on a false Treaty document.
The question that must be asked, ‘Were their actions compatible with New Zealand’s constitutional and legal arrangements?’
Both the Crown Law Office and the Rosemary Banks, New Zealand’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations have stated, they were not!
It’s good to see Neil has understood who allowed the Waitangi Tribunal to become the monster it has become since 1985. This was never the intention when the 1975 Treaty of Waitangi Act was enacted, but in 1985 Geoffrey Palmer, our Attorney General changed all this in just 3 years without debate or a mandate from the people of New Zealand.
Then in 2010 Prime Minister, John Key signed the Declaration on the Rights of the Indigenous People when there is no evidence or definition that Maori are indigenous to New Zealand and again without debate or a mandate from the people of New Zealand.
Both these men have allowed Maori to become “Partners with the Crown” and in the process of becoming in “Co- Governance” with the elected government of New Zealand, are not Maori!
Both men’s actions, “Were fundamentaly incompatible with our constitution and legal arrangemants” but they allowed New Zealand Citizens, based on race alone to have rights and priveges not enjoyed by all the People of New Zealand.
This goes against the Treaty of Waitangi and it’s one Principle of, “He iwi tahi tatou – We are now one people”, Are you going to sit and watch our Democrcy be destroyed because of two men that let personal agenda’s get in the way of their duty to the people of New Zealand they were elected and swore to do. Hopefully not, just two men who we beleive were traitors to our Nation and its Democracy.
And isn’t it interesting that those “Public Servants” who do/did so much damage to our beautiful country end up getting a knighthood or Damehood and are held up as paragon’s of society?
QUESTION, Why would “Two White Men” want to destroy our Nation and its Democracy?
“Why would two white men want to destroy .. ”
Often because of a deep seated obsession, in this case misplaced, the likes of which more generally have driven some of the greatest steps forward of mankind, as well as some of the greatest evils.
In 1989 a book was published called “The sellout of New Zealand” by Denis McKenna. He talks about a secret group operating in the NZ House of Parliament called the “Parliamentarians for Global Action (PGA), previously called “Parliamentarians for World Order” (PWO).
This NZ group is a sub-group of the World Association of Parliamentarians for World Order that first appeared in 1952, with a specific blue-print for the organization of one world government. (NWO).
When this book was published more than half the current MP’s in NZ were members of this covert group.
This group has been operating since 1981, with Richard Prebble being the first branch secretary for PWO. He told Parliament (16/6/81) that he was a member of PWO and that “In the final analysis the survival of our planet will depend upon the decisions of only a few thousand politicians. We will not be able to tackle these problems unless we are prepared to cooperate and give up some of our national sovereignty?
The only MP who has ever warned the people about the threat of PWO was Graeme Lee in 1982 when he said “The PWO seeks opening to dilute or, if necessary, deny NZ’s sovereignty. It seeks ultimately to replace our own elected representatives with a system of world government”.
Richard Prebble was replaced as branch secretary in 1986 by Helen Clark, while at the same time they changed their name from PWO to PGA.
In 2004 a list of MP’s belonging to PGA listed 42 MP’s by name. Three of those listed are still MP’s today. They are Nanaia Mahuta, Damien O’Conner and Trevor Mallard.
And let’s not forget that our current PM did the WEF Young Global Leaders indoctrination course, and passed with flying colours.
There is something deeper and sinister going on here in NZ driven by outside influences in my opinion?
Good morning everyone. Just coming to the comments posted yesterday. They make interesting reading. As we get further and further into this, I find the comments are coming from some clever and intelligent people.
Keep it going guys, we need to do our bit. For me, I post ‘Stop Co-Governance’ on Kiwiblogs’ General Debate every day. More and more people are becoming aware of things they just did not know. Why? The NZ Media. They are so far left they are standing on the edge of the Flat Earth, frothing at the mouth.
Steve.